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	<title>Comments on: Genre fiction and Tie-in Fiction – a conversation between Mark Charan Newton and Dan Abnett.</title>
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	<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2009/11/11/genre-fiction-and-tie-in-fiction-%e2%80%93-a-conversation-between-mark-charan-newton-and-dan-abnett/</link>
	<description>Jeff VanderMeer</description>
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		<title>By: Jumping the Fence &#171; Mechanical Hamster</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2009/11/11/genre-fiction-and-tie-in-fiction-%e2%80%93-a-conversation-between-mark-charan-newton-and-dan-abnett/comment-page-1/#comment-29436</link>
		<dc:creator>Jumping the Fence &#171; Mechanical Hamster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 12:16:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/?p=6193#comment-29436</guid>
		<description>[...] guest blog at Borders looks at tie-in fiction and comics, while Dan also had an interesting conversation with Mark Charan Newton about the literary worth (or perceived lack) of tie-in [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] guest blog at Borders looks at tie-in fiction and comics, while Dan also had an interesting conversation with Mark Charan Newton about the literary worth (or perceived lack) of tie-in [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Phillip</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2009/11/11/genre-fiction-and-tie-in-fiction-%e2%80%93-a-conversation-between-mark-charan-newton-and-dan-abnett/comment-page-1/#comment-27761</link>
		<dc:creator>Phillip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:55:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/?p=6193#comment-27761</guid>
		<description>I have to say that I&#039;ve devoured all the above with great interest. It was a link from Dan Abnett&#039;s blog that brought me here in the first place which tells you where my interests lie. It never really occured to me that there might be snobbery over tie-in fiction set in the Warhammer worlds though I have had that reaction myself to computer game tie-ins. For me, and the point has already been eloquently made, the issue with tie-in fiction has always been its exclusivity. Unless you have a good understanding of the world/s in which the stories take place you are going to miss out on some the fundamental details of the tale. 

Inspired by a blog post of Wil Wheaton I very recently put pen to paper, or more accurately hand to keyboard after many years of procrastinating. For me the choice of which world to write in was already made by my abiding love of the 40K universe and yet I also realised that though I would be posting the story to my blog in parts it would likely be largely inaccessable to most of the people who stumbled upon it. I attempted to overcome this issue by linking key words to websites that explained them in more detail but I suspect that this strategy will be largely ineffective and will disturb the flow of the story.

I don&#039;t think a book should be judged because it is a tie-in. I think it should stand on its own merits but for reviewers with limited time and many books to read they will likely focus their attention on easily accessable fiction that doesn&#039;t require reams background information to enjoy. Many, well written, reviews often appear on fan blogs and it is to them that I turn for opinion as to whether the latest release is worth my time. It has long been my feeling that mainstream reviewers are unlikely to really understand the worlds I&#039;m reading in, unless they themselves are fans, which limits the usefulness of their opinion.

I do agree that really well written work will appeal to those outside of the fold but for me the devil is the details that they will miss out on because I haven&#039;t the skills to get it all in there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to say that I&#8217;ve devoured all the above with great interest. It was a link from Dan Abnett&#8217;s blog that brought me here in the first place which tells you where my interests lie. It never really occured to me that there might be snobbery over tie-in fiction set in the Warhammer worlds though I have had that reaction myself to computer game tie-ins. For me, and the point has already been eloquently made, the issue with tie-in fiction has always been its exclusivity. Unless you have a good understanding of the world/s in which the stories take place you are going to miss out on some the fundamental details of the tale. </p>
<p>Inspired by a blog post of Wil Wheaton I very recently put pen to paper, or more accurately hand to keyboard after many years of procrastinating. For me the choice of which world to write in was already made by my abiding love of the 40K universe and yet I also realised that though I would be posting the story to my blog in parts it would likely be largely inaccessable to most of the people who stumbled upon it. I attempted to overcome this issue by linking key words to websites that explained them in more detail but I suspect that this strategy will be largely ineffective and will disturb the flow of the story.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think a book should be judged because it is a tie-in. I think it should stand on its own merits but for reviewers with limited time and many books to read they will likely focus their attention on easily accessable fiction that doesn&#8217;t require reams background information to enjoy. Many, well written, reviews often appear on fan blogs and it is to them that I turn for opinion as to whether the latest release is worth my time. It has long been my feeling that mainstream reviewers are unlikely to really understand the worlds I&#8217;m reading in, unless they themselves are fans, which limits the usefulness of their opinion.</p>
<p>I do agree that really well written work will appeal to those outside of the fold but for me the devil is the details that they will miss out on because I haven&#8217;t the skills to get it all in there.</p>
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		<title>By: The Link Hand of God &#171; Torque Control</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2009/11/11/genre-fiction-and-tie-in-fiction-%e2%80%93-a-conversation-between-mark-charan-newton-and-dan-abnett/comment-page-1/#comment-27668</link>
		<dc:creator>The Link Hand of God &#171; Torque Control</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:25:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/?p=6193#comment-27668</guid>
		<description>[...] Moorcock on writing a Doctor Who novel; see also Mark Charan Newton&#8217;s interview of Dan [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Moorcock on writing a Doctor Who novel; see also Mark Charan Newton&#8217;s interview of Dan [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Long</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2009/11/11/genre-fiction-and-tie-in-fiction-%e2%80%93-a-conversation-between-mark-charan-newton-and-dan-abnett/comment-page-1/#comment-27629</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Long</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:25:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/?p=6193#comment-27629</guid>
		<description>Pete and Tom, you guys have unwittingly (unless you know each other and did this on purpose - in which case, well done!) illustrated one of the tie-in writer&#039;s dilemmas. There is a spectrum of readers, some who need to be brought up to speed on the background, some who just want to cut to the chase. How does a writer entertain both without turning off one or the other, while at the same time hitting the bullet points (and yes, the IP owners sometimes ask you to do that) that make the property what it is. The answer is probably, one can&#039;t, but one can certainly try.

My way of doing it - and I can&#039;t speak for anyone else - is to make sure that the novel I&#039;m writing is a self-contained story. That is, it has a beginning, middle, and end, and all the characters are properly introduced, so that whether the reader fully understands the background or not, they will at least understand what is happening to the heroes and why they care. I tend to just let the background take care of itself, doing as much description of places and people as I would in a regular novel. If my bosses have asked that something particular be mentioned or used in the novel, I try to make it new to my characters too, so that they and the reader discover it together and it seems as natural as possible. 

As far as I&#039;m concerned, no book should require the previous reading of other books to be enjoyable. Of course, this is not a problem that is unique to tie-in writers. Any writer who writes a series has to worry about the reader who picks it up at book seven and doesn&#039;t know a thing about the universe or the story so far. And as far as being creatively limited by the rules of the property, any world, whether invented by the author, or by a game company, toy company, or movie, is going to establish rules about what can happen within the world and what can&#039;t. Do you feel the same way about writers who are writing episodes for a series you like? They are bound just as we are, sometimes even tighter. Every TV show has a &#039;bible&#039; that tells you what you can and can&#039;t do when you write for them. I couldn&#039;t go nuts and kill the lead characters on CSI for instance, or let the characters on Lost get off the island. 

In my view, creativity comes in finding ways to do something different and exciting within the confines of the rules - kind of like writing haiku.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pete and Tom, you guys have unwittingly (unless you know each other and did this on purpose &#8211; in which case, well done!) illustrated one of the tie-in writer&#8217;s dilemmas. There is a spectrum of readers, some who need to be brought up to speed on the background, some who just want to cut to the chase. How does a writer entertain both without turning off one or the other, while at the same time hitting the bullet points (and yes, the IP owners sometimes ask you to do that) that make the property what it is. The answer is probably, one can&#8217;t, but one can certainly try.</p>
<p>My way of doing it &#8211; and I can&#8217;t speak for anyone else &#8211; is to make sure that the novel I&#8217;m writing is a self-contained story. That is, it has a beginning, middle, and end, and all the characters are properly introduced, so that whether the reader fully understands the background or not, they will at least understand what is happening to the heroes and why they care. I tend to just let the background take care of itself, doing as much description of places and people as I would in a regular novel. If my bosses have asked that something particular be mentioned or used in the novel, I try to make it new to my characters too, so that they and the reader discover it together and it seems as natural as possible. </p>
<p>As far as I&#8217;m concerned, no book should require the previous reading of other books to be enjoyable. Of course, this is not a problem that is unique to tie-in writers. Any writer who writes a series has to worry about the reader who picks it up at book seven and doesn&#8217;t know a thing about the universe or the story so far. And as far as being creatively limited by the rules of the property, any world, whether invented by the author, or by a game company, toy company, or movie, is going to establish rules about what can happen within the world and what can&#8217;t. Do you feel the same way about writers who are writing episodes for a series you like? They are bound just as we are, sometimes even tighter. Every TV show has a &#8216;bible&#8217; that tells you what you can and can&#8217;t do when you write for them. I couldn&#8217;t go nuts and kill the lead characters on CSI for instance, or let the characters on Lost get off the island. </p>
<p>In my view, creativity comes in finding ways to do something different and exciting within the confines of the rules &#8211; kind of like writing haiku.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Lloyd</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2009/11/11/genre-fiction-and-tie-in-fiction-%e2%80%93-a-conversation-between-mark-charan-newton-and-dan-abnett/comment-page-1/#comment-27619</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Lloyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/?p=6193#comment-27619</guid>
		<description>What I&#039;ve disliked about the (admittedly few) tie-in novels I&#039;ve read has been the sense that they&#039;re written too much for a hardcore fan-base that has no imagination of their own, which undersells it. I haven&#039;t played Warhammer 40k for more than ten years, for example, but I don&#039;t need every detail of a space marine&#039;s weaponry and physiology spelled out to the detriment of the story being told. I have a decent level of background knowledge already and knew nothing about the Malazan world when I started reading them, but I didn&#039;t find that a problem. While accuracy is important, it always looked as though they almost had instructions from the copyright holder to hit certain bullet points. Whether it was a lack of a creative freedom or a fear of alienating the core market, the books came across as creatively limited, which for me means there&#039;s no point reading them however accomplished the prose actually is. I guess when you&#039;ve got a brand to protect it&#039;s hard to give a world to some writer and say &#039;go nuts&#039;, but for me that&#039;s the only way tie-in novels are going to get respect from the market.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I&#8217;ve disliked about the (admittedly few) tie-in novels I&#8217;ve read has been the sense that they&#8217;re written too much for a hardcore fan-base that has no imagination of their own, which undersells it. I haven&#8217;t played Warhammer 40k for more than ten years, for example, but I don&#8217;t need every detail of a space marine&#8217;s weaponry and physiology spelled out to the detriment of the story being told. I have a decent level of background knowledge already and knew nothing about the Malazan world when I started reading them, but I didn&#8217;t find that a problem. While accuracy is important, it always looked as though they almost had instructions from the copyright holder to hit certain bullet points. Whether it was a lack of a creative freedom or a fear of alienating the core market, the books came across as creatively limited, which for me means there&#8217;s no point reading them however accomplished the prose actually is. I guess when you&#8217;ve got a brand to protect it&#8217;s hard to give a world to some writer and say &#8216;go nuts&#8217;, but for me that&#8217;s the only way tie-in novels are going to get respect from the market.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete Miller</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2009/11/11/genre-fiction-and-tie-in-fiction-%e2%80%93-a-conversation-between-mark-charan-newton-and-dan-abnett/comment-page-1/#comment-27614</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 07:26:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/?p=6193#comment-27614</guid>
		<description>Great conversation including the comments. I&#039;ve read quite a bit of tie-in or franchise fiction, especially Alan Dean Foster&#039;s stuff in the 70s and 80s and I always loved that he would make the stories work, even if it meant changing something from the film. 

I have almost bought Abnett&#039;s books many times, but always worry that a tie-in for a franchise I&#039;m not familiar with will be harder to access than a &#039;traditional&#039; novel because the franchise has a huge set of things that are known to the fans that might not be established for those not familiar. How do the writers of those &quot;shared world&quot; novels handle that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great conversation including the comments. I&#8217;ve read quite a bit of tie-in or franchise fiction, especially Alan Dean Foster&#8217;s stuff in the 70s and 80s and I always loved that he would make the stories work, even if it meant changing something from the film. </p>
<p>I have almost bought Abnett&#8217;s books many times, but always worry that a tie-in for a franchise I&#8217;m not familiar with will be harder to access than a &#8216;traditional&#8217; novel because the franchise has a huge set of things that are known to the fans that might not be established for those not familiar. How do the writers of those &#8220;shared world&#8221; novels handle that?</p>
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		<title>By: Gav Thorpe</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2009/11/11/genre-fiction-and-tie-in-fiction-%e2%80%93-a-conversation-between-mark-charan-newton-and-dan-abnett/comment-page-1/#comment-27549</link>
		<dc:creator>Gav Thorpe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:02:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/?p=6193#comment-27549</guid>
		<description>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8362658.stm

Speaking of meeting the Moorcock challenges...

I think it speaks volumes that he says, &quot;I&#039;ll be doing a new Doctor Who novel (not a tie-in) for appearance, I understand, by next Christmas.&quot; Clearly Mr Moorcock sees a difference between writing a novel in a universe created by someone else and a &#039;tie-in&#039;. I wouldn&#039;t want to put words into his mouth, but here&#039;s a thought - is there a difference between a direct novelisation of story told another medium (such as Alan Dean Foster&#039;s alien) and new stories and characters created within an existing universe? As an example, I have the graphic novelisation of the Time Burton Batman movie. Is this just another Batman graphic novel like Arkham Asylum or The Killing Joke, or has it crossed over into &#039;tie-in&#039; fiction?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8362658.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8362658.stm</a></p>
<p>Speaking of meeting the Moorcock challenges&#8230;</p>
<p>I think it speaks volumes that he says, &#8220;I&#8217;ll be doing a new Doctor Who novel (not a tie-in) for appearance, I understand, by next Christmas.&#8221; Clearly Mr Moorcock sees a difference between writing a novel in a universe created by someone else and a &#8216;tie-in&#8217;. I wouldn&#8217;t want to put words into his mouth, but here&#8217;s a thought &#8211; is there a difference between a direct novelisation of story told another medium (such as Alan Dean Foster&#8217;s alien) and new stories and characters created within an existing universe? As an example, I have the graphic novelisation of the Time Burton Batman movie. Is this just another Batman graphic novel like Arkham Asylum or The Killing Joke, or has it crossed over into &#8216;tie-in&#8217; fiction?</p>
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		<title>By: Sabrepunk &#187; Blog Archiv &#187; Tied in, not tied down</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2009/11/11/genre-fiction-and-tie-in-fiction-%e2%80%93-a-conversation-between-mark-charan-newton-and-dan-abnett/comment-page-1/#comment-27525</link>
		<dc:creator>Sabrepunk &#187; Blog Archiv &#187; Tied in, not tied down</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:01:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/?p=6193#comment-27525</guid>
		<description>[...] Click here to check it out. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Click here to check it out. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Clapham</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2009/11/11/genre-fiction-and-tie-in-fiction-%e2%80%93-a-conversation-between-mark-charan-newton-and-dan-abnett/comment-page-1/#comment-27516</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Clapham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 12:35:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/?p=6193#comment-27516</guid>
		<description>Ditto - I&#039;m sure there are perfectly good vampire romance books, cat mysteries, etc. But there&#039;s definitely a format there in a lot of cases, a template as rigid as any that tie-in authors have to work within. My point wasn&#039;t so much that tie-ins are better or worse than these sub-genres, just that they work within similar levels of restriction and audience demands, yet the ones without a logo on the cover get a bit more respect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ditto &#8211; I&#8217;m sure there are perfectly good vampire romance books, cat mysteries, etc. But there&#8217;s definitely a format there in a lot of cases, a template as rigid as any that tie-in authors have to work within. My point wasn&#8217;t so much that tie-ins are better or worse than these sub-genres, just that they work within similar levels of restriction and audience demands, yet the ones without a logo on the cover get a bit more respect.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Long</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2009/11/11/genre-fiction-and-tie-in-fiction-%e2%80%93-a-conversation-between-mark-charan-newton-and-dan-abnett/comment-page-1/#comment-27471</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Long</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 09:04:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/?p=6193#comment-27471</guid>
		<description>Forgive me, Cora, if I seemed to put down any particular genre. That was not my intent. The point I had hoped to make was that tie-ins are often on a par with mid-list genre books - sometimes better written, sometimes worse, sometimes the same - and I was wishing that tie-ins would get the opportunity to be reviewed along side them as equals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Forgive me, Cora, if I seemed to put down any particular genre. That was not my intent. The point I had hoped to make was that tie-ins are often on a par with mid-list genre books &#8211; sometimes better written, sometimes worse, sometimes the same &#8211; and I was wishing that tie-ins would get the opportunity to be reviewed along side them as equals.</p>
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