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	<title>Comments on: Shared Worlds: Real Cities That Seem Fantastical/SFnal</title>
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	<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2009/06/17/shared-worlds-real-cities-that-seem-fantasticalsfnal/</link>
	<description>Jeff VanderMeer</description>
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		<title>By: Cool Site</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2009/06/17/shared-worlds-real-cities-that-seem-fantasticalsfnal/comment-page-1/#comment-24310</link>
		<dc:creator>Cool Site</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 11:21:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks for posting this useful information</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for posting this useful information</p>
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		<title>By: A Monumental City: The Shared Worlds Question &#124; The Datalink Tower</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2009/06/17/shared-worlds-real-cities-that-seem-fantasticalsfnal/comment-page-1/#comment-23580</link>
		<dc:creator>A Monumental City: The Shared Worlds Question &#124; The Datalink Tower</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 15:04:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] and instructor, asked the question of current and past Shared Worlds instructors on his blog here, and SF Signal asked the question as part of its Mind Meld series here. The Shared Worlds post put [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and instructor, asked the question of current and past Shared Worlds instructors on his blog here, and SF Signal asked the question as part of its Mind Meld series here. The Shared Worlds post put [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Heather</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2009/06/17/shared-worlds-real-cities-that-seem-fantasticalsfnal/comment-page-1/#comment-23566</link>
		<dc:creator>Heather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 21:24:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/?p=4989#comment-23566</guid>
		<description>What about Barcelona? Maybe not the city overall, but some of Antoni Gaudi&#039;s buildings (esp. Casa Mila, Casa Batllo) are pretty fantastical. Also, for a fantasy setting, I nominate Granada. The Alhambra is a palace right out of the Arabian Nights, and the Albaicin, or Arab quarter, is full of medieval buildings and narrow, twisting streets. I could see a Guy Gavriel Kay novel set there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about Barcelona? Maybe not the city overall, but some of Antoni Gaudi&#8217;s buildings (esp. Casa Mila, Casa Batllo) are pretty fantastical. Also, for a fantasy setting, I nominate Granada. The Alhambra is a palace right out of the Arabian Nights, and the Albaicin, or Arab quarter, is full of medieval buildings and narrow, twisting streets. I could see a Guy Gavriel Kay novel set there.</p>
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		<title>By: Liam</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2009/06/17/shared-worlds-real-cities-that-seem-fantasticalsfnal/comment-page-1/#comment-23528</link>
		<dc:creator>Liam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:38:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/?p=4989#comment-23528</guid>
		<description>&quot;Everyone’s been to New York even if they haven’t.&quot; Excellent observation.

Prague, definitely. My wife and I went there for the honeymoon. I would also nominate Lisbon. And Venice in winter, when the tourists have gone and are replaced by fog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Everyone’s been to New York even if they haven’t.&#8221; Excellent observation.</p>
<p>Prague, definitely. My wife and I went there for the honeymoon. I would also nominate Lisbon. And Venice in winter, when the tourists have gone and are replaced by fog.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff VanderMeer</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2009/06/17/shared-worlds-real-cities-that-seem-fantasticalsfnal/comment-page-1/#comment-23522</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff VanderMeer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 17:34:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>And also from the piece:

Modern Prague continues to exhibit this sense of sly playfulness, as evidenced by a major gallery exhibit at the Kampa Museum of Modern Art consisting of huge plastic bears and rabbits, along with a huge wicker chair by the river, suitable for a giant. Not to mention a fine memorial to John Lennon opposite the Old Town, where thousands of people a year come to pay tribute. 

As a modern, thriving metropolis, Prague by day or by night contains so many imaginative surprises that even cynical travelers can be amazed by it. Walking around a corner in the  evening, with the old town area lit up like some fairy tale setting, we have stumbled across impromptu concerts, street theater, puppetry, and stunning exhibits of international photography. 

But one discovery exemplified for us the magical nature of Prague. Walking through the gardens overlooking city, we heard faint music coming from a high hedge. We soon found a narrow break in the shrubbery that led to a little beer bar with a radio and seats made from tree stumps with green felt as upholstery. Although it was the summer, holiday lights had been woven through the gnarled trees. In the back lay a delicate gazebo set amidst a forest of vines and strange metal sculptures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And also from the piece:</p>
<p>Modern Prague continues to exhibit this sense of sly playfulness, as evidenced by a major gallery exhibit at the Kampa Museum of Modern Art consisting of huge plastic bears and rabbits, along with a huge wicker chair by the river, suitable for a giant. Not to mention a fine memorial to John Lennon opposite the Old Town, where thousands of people a year come to pay tribute. </p>
<p>As a modern, thriving metropolis, Prague by day or by night contains so many imaginative surprises that even cynical travelers can be amazed by it. Walking around a corner in the  evening, with the old town area lit up like some fairy tale setting, we have stumbled across impromptu concerts, street theater, puppetry, and stunning exhibits of international photography. </p>
<p>But one discovery exemplified for us the magical nature of Prague. Walking through the gardens overlooking city, we heard faint music coming from a high hedge. We soon found a narrow break in the shrubbery that led to a little beer bar with a radio and seats made from tree stumps with green felt as upholstery. Although it was the summer, holiday lights had been woven through the gnarled trees. In the back lay a delicate gazebo set amidst a forest of vines and strange metal sculptures.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff VanderMeer</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2009/06/17/shared-worlds-real-cities-that-seem-fantasticalsfnal/comment-page-1/#comment-23521</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff VanderMeer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 17:32:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/?p=4989#comment-23521</guid>
		<description>Heh. Nice comment, Alex.

I&#039;d have to say Prague because of its dual fantastical/playful nature--and the unexpected nature of its beauty and creativity. It&#039;s what got me thinking about doing this Shared Worlds feature in the first place.

That&#039;s also because I wouldn&#039;t want to pick a city I&#039;d just read about, but one I had visited. I wrote about Prague for Locus Online recently:

http://www.locusmag.com/2009/VanderMeer_Prague.html

Excerpt: 

To us, there may be no more fantastical city than Prague, the capital of the Czech Republic, situated on the banks of the Vltava River. Its roots in fantasy go much deeper than Franz Kafka, who once lived in a room in the city&#039;s walls. They also go deeper than the tale of the Golem, one of Prague&#039;s most famous fictitious exports. 

A penchant for the fantastical seems to come naturally to Czechs, perhaps nowhere more in evidence than Jaroslav Hasek&#039;s tales of the good soldier Svejk. In these absurd stories, Svejk&#039;s fabrications become ever more bizarre and grandiose, and yet fool everyone with the sincerity and detail of their telling. In one particular tale, Svejk claims to have discovered such oddities as the Sulphur-Bellied Whale, the Edible Ox, and Sepia Infusorium, a kind of sewer rat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh. Nice comment, Alex.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d have to say Prague because of its dual fantastical/playful nature&#8211;and the unexpected nature of its beauty and creativity. It&#8217;s what got me thinking about doing this Shared Worlds feature in the first place.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s also because I wouldn&#8217;t want to pick a city I&#8217;d just read about, but one I had visited. I wrote about Prague for Locus Online recently:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.locusmag.com/2009/VanderMeer_Prague.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.locusmag.com/2009/VanderMeer_Prague.html</a></p>
<p>Excerpt: </p>
<p>To us, there may be no more fantastical city than Prague, the capital of the Czech Republic, situated on the banks of the Vltava River. Its roots in fantasy go much deeper than Franz Kafka, who once lived in a room in the city&#8217;s walls. They also go deeper than the tale of the Golem, one of Prague&#8217;s most famous fictitious exports. </p>
<p>A penchant for the fantastical seems to come naturally to Czechs, perhaps nowhere more in evidence than Jaroslav Hasek&#8217;s tales of the good soldier Svejk. In these absurd stories, Svejk&#8217;s fabrications become ever more bizarre and grandiose, and yet fool everyone with the sincerity and detail of their telling. In one particular tale, Svejk claims to have discovered such oddities as the Sulphur-Bellied Whale, the Edible Ox, and Sepia Infusorium, a kind of sewer rat.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Carnegie</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2009/06/17/shared-worlds-real-cities-that-seem-fantasticalsfnal/comment-page-1/#comment-23519</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Carnegie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 17:16:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/?p=4989#comment-23519</guid>
		<description>Jeff: What&#039;s your pick, if I may ask? I don&#039;t mind if you say &quot;Ambergris&quot;, it maintains the metafiction after all

Liam: Yep, Jerusalem is definitely an interesting one! The mix of modernity with old-world startled me at first - you sort of expect it to be frozen in the past in a kind of reverence for its holiness - but people, cities, and life move on. One of the funniest things I heard when I was there was a piece of irreverance from a cabdriver: &quot;the best thing about Jerusalem is the road to Tel Aviv&quot; - because to Israelis it&#039;s not just a grand historic setting but also a city like any other, subject to the same petty rivalries and idiosyncrasies. Until I came there I never fully thought of it as a place where people &lt;i&gt;live&lt;/i&gt;.

New York&#039;s pretty amazing for an outsider. I suppose it&#039;s a cliched one but the image of the steam pouring out of the grates in the winter is the one that&#039;s stuck with me most - it&#039;s like the city&#039;s visibly breathing... It&#039;s Gotham and every East Coast industrial Noir metropolis you&#039;ve ever imagined right there in bricks and concrete. &lt;i&gt;Everyone&#039;s&lt;/i&gt; been to New York even if they haven&#039;t - you can&#039;t really say the same about every other city...

One of the oddest things about London is that it&#039;s such a fractured place: within the historic centre (a suprisingly small area) it might seem like a thoroughly coherent whole but London&#039;s far more than just that part, lots of smaller mini-cities/towns collected together under the banner of &#039;London&#039; but really with very separate identities. It&#039;s so different, and seems so separated, from north to south and east to west that sometimes we get a bit clannish about it: I don&#039;t class myself as a Londoner as much as a &lt;i&gt;South Londoner&lt;/i&gt; even though I haven&#039;t lived there for years. Of course, when using it as inspiration for the fantastic these distances and differences tend to become exagerrated... Although &#039;The City &amp; The City&#039; has made me think more about the nature of borders, how they&#039;re more mental than anything else. As China Mieville says it&#039;s a &quot;shoved together&quot; patchwork that&#039;s always growing as the great beast that is London consumes and subsumes its surroundings, taking in new people from all over the place, getting fatter and fatter and more and more of a mishmash.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff: What&#8217;s your pick, if I may ask? I don&#8217;t mind if you say &#8220;Ambergris&#8221;, it maintains the metafiction after all</p>
<p>Liam: Yep, Jerusalem is definitely an interesting one! The mix of modernity with old-world startled me at first &#8211; you sort of expect it to be frozen in the past in a kind of reverence for its holiness &#8211; but people, cities, and life move on. One of the funniest things I heard when I was there was a piece of irreverance from a cabdriver: &#8220;the best thing about Jerusalem is the road to Tel Aviv&#8221; &#8211; because to Israelis it&#8217;s not just a grand historic setting but also a city like any other, subject to the same petty rivalries and idiosyncrasies. Until I came there I never fully thought of it as a place where people <i>live</i>.</p>
<p>New York&#8217;s pretty amazing for an outsider. I suppose it&#8217;s a cliched one but the image of the steam pouring out of the grates in the winter is the one that&#8217;s stuck with me most &#8211; it&#8217;s like the city&#8217;s visibly breathing&#8230; It&#8217;s Gotham and every East Coast industrial Noir metropolis you&#8217;ve ever imagined right there in bricks and concrete. <i>Everyone&#8217;s</i> been to New York even if they haven&#8217;t &#8211; you can&#8217;t really say the same about every other city&#8230;</p>
<p>One of the oddest things about London is that it&#8217;s such a fractured place: within the historic centre (a suprisingly small area) it might seem like a thoroughly coherent whole but London&#8217;s far more than just that part, lots of smaller mini-cities/towns collected together under the banner of &#8216;London&#8217; but really with very separate identities. It&#8217;s so different, and seems so separated, from north to south and east to west that sometimes we get a bit clannish about it: I don&#8217;t class myself as a Londoner as much as a <i>South Londoner</i> even though I haven&#8217;t lived there for years. Of course, when using it as inspiration for the fantastic these distances and differences tend to become exagerrated&#8230; Although &#8216;The City &amp; The City&#8217; has made me think more about the nature of borders, how they&#8217;re more mental than anything else. As China Mieville says it&#8217;s a &#8220;shoved together&#8221; patchwork that&#8217;s always growing as the great beast that is London consumes and subsumes its surroundings, taking in new people from all over the place, getting fatter and fatter and more and more of a mishmash.</p>
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		<title>By: Liam</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2009/06/17/shared-worlds-real-cities-that-seem-fantasticalsfnal/comment-page-1/#comment-23510</link>
		<dc:creator>Liam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:08:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Great question. I think Jerusalem is the most fascinating city I&#039;ve visited personally. A bizarre blend of the ancient and the modern, the east and west. You cross from the new city to East Jerusalem and it&#039;s like crossing from Europe into the Middle East in a space of twenty feet. The ultraorthodox Jewish neighborhood is a world apart -- you feel like you&#039;re in a ghetto in Poland in the 18th-century. The old city is continuously crossed by all manner of people -- Hasidic Jews, Orthodox monks (Greek, Armenian, Coptic, Ethiopian, etc.), Franciscan friars, Palestinian women in various forms of Hijab... The tragic weight of history and belief, and heavily armed IDF everywhere. Fascinating, awesome, beautiful, terrifying...

On the other hand, I live in New York City, which is pretty amazing as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great question. I think Jerusalem is the most fascinating city I&#8217;ve visited personally. A bizarre blend of the ancient and the modern, the east and west. You cross from the new city to East Jerusalem and it&#8217;s like crossing from Europe into the Middle East in a space of twenty feet. The ultraorthodox Jewish neighborhood is a world apart &#8212; you feel like you&#8217;re in a ghetto in Poland in the 18th-century. The old city is continuously crossed by all manner of people &#8212; Hasidic Jews, Orthodox monks (Greek, Armenian, Coptic, Ethiopian, etc.), Franciscan friars, Palestinian women in various forms of Hijab&#8230; The tragic weight of history and belief, and heavily armed IDF everywhere. Fascinating, awesome, beautiful, terrifying&#8230;</p>
<p>On the other hand, I live in New York City, which is pretty amazing as well.</p>
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