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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;God, that&#8217;s a merciless question&#8221;: China Mieville&#8217;s Interview From Weird Tales</title>
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	<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2009/06/16/god-thats-a-merciless-question-china-mievilles-interview-from-weird-tales/</link>
	<description>Jeff VanderMeer</description>
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		<title>By: China Miéville im Interview mit Jeff VanderMeer « AntiTerra</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2009/06/16/god-thats-a-merciless-question-china-mievilles-interview-from-weird-tales/comment-page-1/#comment-30144</link>
		<dc:creator>China Miéville im Interview mit Jeff VanderMeer « AntiTerra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:16:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] “God, that’s a merciless question”. (via midnightradio) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] “God, that’s a merciless question”. (via midnightradio) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: jeff vandermeer</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2009/06/16/god-thats-a-merciless-question-china-mievilles-interview-from-weird-tales/comment-page-1/#comment-23842</link>
		<dc:creator>jeff vandermeer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 01:39:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think the point I made about sociopaths has been missed. I see a fair number of stories in workshops *and* in publications where the author clearly means for the reader to take the main character as being normal and to at least some extent a good person...when in fact what is in the text through their actions and motivations suggests sociopathic or psychotic tendencies. There&#039;s something about certain me-me-me tendencies of modern American society that exacerbate this without anyone really seeming to notice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the point I made about sociopaths has been missed. I see a fair number of stories in workshops *and* in publications where the author clearly means for the reader to take the main character as being normal and to at least some extent a good person&#8230;when in fact what is in the text through their actions and motivations suggests sociopathic or psychotic tendencies. There&#8217;s something about certain me-me-me tendencies of modern American society that exacerbate this without anyone really seeming to notice.</p>
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		<title>By: Indy</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2009/06/16/god-thats-a-merciless-question-china-mievilles-interview-from-weird-tales/comment-page-1/#comment-23839</link>
		<dc:creator>Indy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 01:14:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/?p=4983#comment-23839</guid>
		<description>A couple of interesting points here in the post-interview discussion:

Re. Lovecraft and women: Stephen King (in Danse Macabre) comments on this, describing Lovecraft&#039;s tentacled monsters as being some kind of fetishised substitution for femininity, their gelatinous nature a horror-struck and horrifying vaginal obscenity. It is interesting (if, ultimately, pointless) to wonder how Lovecraft might have reacted to the film &#039;Alien&#039;. It is also intriguing to consider whether Lovecraft, in his avoidance of female characters, wasn&#039;t more self-aware a writer than Tolkien, who could write a female character about as well as a three-week-dead halibut. That argument depends, however, on Lovecraft being aware of his avoidance: is there any literature to suggest that he was?

Also, in regards to Mathew&#039;s point above concerning sociopaths, the officer in &#039;Pan&#039;s Labyrinth&#039; seems to me to be fundamentally different from the &#039;popular&#039; sociopaths of film (Anthony Hopkins&#039;s &#039;Hannibal Lector&#039;, for example, or Heath Ledger&#039;s &#039;Joker&#039;). The point of departure between these characters seems to be on their level of engagement with the society in which they operate. The Spanish officer (and, to provide another parallel, Ralph Fiennes&#039;s Auschwitz commandant in &#039;Schindler&#039;s List&#039;) are repugnant because they seek to supplant the accepted society with one of their own devising. They are fundamentally irrelatable, firstly because they demonstrate a different psychology to the average viewer (their heads simply work differently), and secondly because they represent an imposition of their values on a society that will not willingly accept them: they are oppressors before they are sociopaths (at least in the viewer&#039;s estimation). Lector and the Joker are different because they work *within* the society we know, not trying to change or destroy it. (Admittedly the Joker may lay some claim to attempting this, but the changes he tries to force are revelatory: he wants to show Gotham and its inhabitants what they&#039;re really like. He is not altering society, merely stripping it of its self-delusion). While it is true on one level to say that Lector and Auschwitz&#039;s commandant are presented as irredeemable, we have a sneaking suspicion that, while the commandant is always inhuman, Lector might somehow be a tolerable companion. Certainly we like him enough to keep going back to the cinema to see him. He is fascinating because we can fool ourselves into thinking he is somehow &#039;just one of us&#039;; the Spanish Officer, through his refusal to operate within our social structure, and his determination to destroy it and replace with a system antithetical to our values, will never be sympathetic: he represents too great a threat. 

Furthermore, he and the commandant, unlike Lector or the Joker (particularly Jack Nicholson&#039;s interpretation, but dimly visible in Ledger&#039;s version too), possess no charm. This is more important than it may sound at first. Charm is an aspect of relatability: how we deal with these characters on a personal level is determined, to a large extent, by how we see them relating to other characters in the films. Charm suggests a collusion with social mores; its absence flies a red flag for us when we consider the threat they represent. Charm is one of the great disguises of the sociopath (before WWII, Hitler was considered by some to be excellent table company) but a sociopath who does not make use of it either does not understand it (making him or her, again, more difficult to relate to), or simply doesn&#039;t care because the social mores to which it accedes are of no interest or relevence to him or her. In which case, beware...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A couple of interesting points here in the post-interview discussion:</p>
<p>Re. Lovecraft and women: Stephen King (in Danse Macabre) comments on this, describing Lovecraft&#8217;s tentacled monsters as being some kind of fetishised substitution for femininity, their gelatinous nature a horror-struck and horrifying vaginal obscenity. It is interesting (if, ultimately, pointless) to wonder how Lovecraft might have reacted to the film &#8216;Alien&#8217;. It is also intriguing to consider whether Lovecraft, in his avoidance of female characters, wasn&#8217;t more self-aware a writer than Tolkien, who could write a female character about as well as a three-week-dead halibut. That argument depends, however, on Lovecraft being aware of his avoidance: is there any literature to suggest that he was?</p>
<p>Also, in regards to Mathew&#8217;s point above concerning sociopaths, the officer in &#8216;Pan&#8217;s Labyrinth&#8217; seems to me to be fundamentally different from the &#8216;popular&#8217; sociopaths of film (Anthony Hopkins&#8217;s &#8216;Hannibal Lector&#8217;, for example, or Heath Ledger&#8217;s &#8216;Joker&#8217;). The point of departure between these characters seems to be on their level of engagement with the society in which they operate. The Spanish officer (and, to provide another parallel, Ralph Fiennes&#8217;s Auschwitz commandant in &#8216;Schindler&#8217;s List&#8217;) are repugnant because they seek to supplant the accepted society with one of their own devising. They are fundamentally irrelatable, firstly because they demonstrate a different psychology to the average viewer (their heads simply work differently), and secondly because they represent an imposition of their values on a society that will not willingly accept them: they are oppressors before they are sociopaths (at least in the viewer&#8217;s estimation). Lector and the Joker are different because they work *within* the society we know, not trying to change or destroy it. (Admittedly the Joker may lay some claim to attempting this, but the changes he tries to force are revelatory: he wants to show Gotham and its inhabitants what they&#8217;re really like. He is not altering society, merely stripping it of its self-delusion). While it is true on one level to say that Lector and Auschwitz&#8217;s commandant are presented as irredeemable, we have a sneaking suspicion that, while the commandant is always inhuman, Lector might somehow be a tolerable companion. Certainly we like him enough to keep going back to the cinema to see him. He is fascinating because we can fool ourselves into thinking he is somehow &#8216;just one of us&#8217;; the Spanish Officer, through his refusal to operate within our social structure, and his determination to destroy it and replace with a system antithetical to our values, will never be sympathetic: he represents too great a threat. </p>
<p>Furthermore, he and the commandant, unlike Lector or the Joker (particularly Jack Nicholson&#8217;s interpretation, but dimly visible in Ledger&#8217;s version too), possess no charm. This is more important than it may sound at first. Charm is an aspect of relatability: how we deal with these characters on a personal level is determined, to a large extent, by how we see them relating to other characters in the films. Charm suggests a collusion with social mores; its absence flies a red flag for us when we consider the threat they represent. Charm is one of the great disguises of the sociopath (before WWII, Hitler was considered by some to be excellent table company) but a sociopath who does not make use of it either does not understand it (making him or her, again, more difficult to relate to), or simply doesn&#8217;t care because the social mores to which it accedes are of no interest or relevence to him or her. In which case, beware&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2009/06/16/god-thats-a-merciless-question-china-mievilles-interview-from-weird-tales/comment-page-1/#comment-23732</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:22:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/?p=4983#comment-23732</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t really &quot;get&quot; why the ending of AI is supposed to be sadistic. It seems to me this perception comes from the wish that the the illusion of sweetness wouldn&#039;t actually be an illusion. But with a neutral eye, the ending is simply a bleak, maybe resigning view of a harsh reality. It&#039;s really weird to me that someone would want to insist on &quot;cruelty&quot; here, unless he or she doesn&#039;t like dark stories per se.
This almost gives the impression that there are fundamental differences in the perception of the effects of art that cannot be overcome by reason, because I wouldn&#039;t imagine Steven Spielberg to be sadistic in this regard. But then the ending of AI has always been a subject of contorversy, so I guess this is just another expression of a somehow imperfect conclusion.

Also, I think the question about some interesting characters actually being sociopaths seems a little strange to me in this field of fiction. Elaborate villains or antiheroes, for example, have always been an element of fascination, and I wouldn&#039;t see why this should suddenly be regarded as improper or dangerous. They are not to be taken as a role model, of course. But if this was in regard to Pan&#039;s Labyrinth - well, I think there was nothing remotely fascinating about the villain. It was repugnance in one of his purest forms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t really &#8220;get&#8221; why the ending of AI is supposed to be sadistic. It seems to me this perception comes from the wish that the the illusion of sweetness wouldn&#8217;t actually be an illusion. But with a neutral eye, the ending is simply a bleak, maybe resigning view of a harsh reality. It&#8217;s really weird to me that someone would want to insist on &#8220;cruelty&#8221; here, unless he or she doesn&#8217;t like dark stories per se.<br />
This almost gives the impression that there are fundamental differences in the perception of the effects of art that cannot be overcome by reason, because I wouldn&#8217;t imagine Steven Spielberg to be sadistic in this regard. But then the ending of AI has always been a subject of contorversy, so I guess this is just another expression of a somehow imperfect conclusion.</p>
<p>Also, I think the question about some interesting characters actually being sociopaths seems a little strange to me in this field of fiction. Elaborate villains or antiheroes, for example, have always been an element of fascination, and I wouldn&#8217;t see why this should suddenly be regarded as improper or dangerous. They are not to be taken as a role model, of course. But if this was in regard to Pan&#8217;s Labyrinth &#8211; well, I think there was nothing remotely fascinating about the villain. It was repugnance in one of his purest forms.</p>
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		<title>By: Links for 17th June 2009 &#124; Velcro City Tourist Board</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2009/06/16/god-thats-a-merciless-question-china-mievilles-interview-from-weird-tales/comment-page-1/#comment-23547</link>
		<dc:creator>Links for 17th June 2009 &#124; Velcro City Tourist Board</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 01:06:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/?p=4983#comment-23547</guid>
		<description>[...] China Mieville&#8217;s Interview From Weird Tales [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] China Mieville&rsquo;s Interview From Weird Tales [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Laird</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2009/06/16/god-thats-a-merciless-question-china-mievilles-interview-from-weird-tales/comment-page-1/#comment-23546</link>
		<dc:creator>Laird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 00:49:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/?p=4983#comment-23546</guid>
		<description>your</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>your</p>
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		<title>By: Laird</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2009/06/16/god-thats-a-merciless-question-china-mievilles-interview-from-weird-tales/comment-page-1/#comment-23545</link>
		<dc:creator>Laird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 00:49:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Alex-- no, you&#039;re comments are thought provoking. Besides, iron sharpens iron, and all that. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex&#8211; no, you&#8217;re comments are thought provoking. Besides, iron sharpens iron, and all that. ;)</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Carnegie</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2009/06/16/god-thats-a-merciless-question-china-mievilles-interview-from-weird-tales/comment-page-1/#comment-23543</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Carnegie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 00:13:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/?p=4983#comment-23543</guid>
		<description>Jeff: indeed. Actually, aside from his objectionable portrayal of minorities, although it&#039;s not often mentioned, women (what few there are) get a bit of a rough deal in his writing as well - Asenath Waite and Keziah Mason coming to mind in particular. I suppose as you say it&#039;s perhaps fortunate that he didn&#039;t provide himself with more opportunities to trip himself up with inevitable stereotype and negative, demonizing portrayals... The idea of Lovecraft trying to write a positive female protagonist for instance is actually laughably bizarre, I just don&#039;t think the dour old sod could have gotten his head around the idea. I imagine somebody pitching it to him: &quot;...yes, but &lt;i&gt;then&lt;/i&gt; she&#039;s shown to be evil and manipulating, right?&quot;

Re. Mushroom dwellers: at least it beats &quot;those King Squid are undoubtably Lovecraftian because they&#039;ve, you know, got tentacles&quot;. 

Laird: Hope I didn&#039;t come across as confrontational. I get what you&#039;re saying. I continue to be amazed by the sense that HPL channelled a wholly misplaced horror of some aspects of modernity into creating such revolutionary Weird fiction, the utter strangeness that it was &lt;i&gt;because of&lt;/i&gt; rather than &lt;i&gt;in spite of&lt;/i&gt; a deeply messed up worldview. That&#039;s why he&#039;s so contentious. 

I&#039;m a bit more of a Clark Ashton Smith guy these days because I prefer my Weird in a secondary world and I&#039;ve tired of Lovecraft&#039;s sheer po-facedness. He&#039;s important more for his legacy to speculative fiction than he is as an individual or perhaps indeed as an author.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff: indeed. Actually, aside from his objectionable portrayal of minorities, although it&#8217;s not often mentioned, women (what few there are) get a bit of a rough deal in his writing as well &#8211; Asenath Waite and Keziah Mason coming to mind in particular. I suppose as you say it&#8217;s perhaps fortunate that he didn&#8217;t provide himself with more opportunities to trip himself up with inevitable stereotype and negative, demonizing portrayals&#8230; The idea of Lovecraft trying to write a positive female protagonist for instance is actually laughably bizarre, I just don&#8217;t think the dour old sod could have gotten his head around the idea. I imagine somebody pitching it to him: &#8220;&#8230;yes, but <i>then</i> she&#8217;s shown to be evil and manipulating, right?&#8221;</p>
<p>Re. Mushroom dwellers: at least it beats &#8220;those King Squid are undoubtably Lovecraftian because they&#8217;ve, you know, got tentacles&#8221;. </p>
<p>Laird: Hope I didn&#8217;t come across as confrontational. I get what you&#8217;re saying. I continue to be amazed by the sense that HPL channelled a wholly misplaced horror of some aspects of modernity into creating such revolutionary Weird fiction, the utter strangeness that it was <i>because of</i> rather than <i>in spite of</i> a deeply messed up worldview. That&#8217;s why he&#8217;s so contentious. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m a bit more of a Clark Ashton Smith guy these days because I prefer my Weird in a secondary world and I&#8217;ve tired of Lovecraft&#8217;s sheer po-facedness. He&#8217;s important more for his legacy to speculative fiction than he is as an individual or perhaps indeed as an author.</p>
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		<title>By: Laird</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2009/06/16/god-thats-a-merciless-question-china-mievilles-interview-from-weird-tales/comment-page-1/#comment-23533</link>
		<dc:creator>Laird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:39:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/?p=4983#comment-23533</guid>
		<description>Or to put it more succinctly -- xenophobia and bigotry giveth, and xenophobia and bigotry taketh away. There&#039;s a reason why many of us gasp in wonder at HPL&#039;s imagination while boggling in horror at his glaring infelicities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or to put it more succinctly &#8212; xenophobia and bigotry giveth, and xenophobia and bigotry taketh away. There&#8217;s a reason why many of us gasp in wonder at HPL&#8217;s imagination while boggling in horror at his glaring infelicities.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff VanderMeer</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2009/06/16/god-thats-a-merciless-question-china-mievilles-interview-from-weird-tales/comment-page-1/#comment-23532</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff VanderMeer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:34:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/?p=4983#comment-23532</guid>
		<description>All of my stupid smart-assedness aside, I think people should be able to enjoy Lovecraft without feeling guilty. My only push-back is inevitably I get the &quot;hey, them mushroom dwellers musta been influenced by Lovecraft.&quot; Actually, no. I like some of Lovecraft&#039;s work, but it&#039;s not that much of an influence, although I totally get why it is on others and don&#039;t think that&#039;s a bad thing. For me, too, I find a kind of gateway from Lovecraft&#039;s Dexter Ward through to some of Nabokov&#039;s work, so there is some linkage that works in terms of my own core writing heroes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All of my stupid smart-assedness aside, I think people should be able to enjoy Lovecraft without feeling guilty. My only push-back is inevitably I get the &#8220;hey, them mushroom dwellers musta been influenced by Lovecraft.&#8221; Actually, no. I like some of Lovecraft&#8217;s work, but it&#8217;s not that much of an influence, although I totally get why it is on others and don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s a bad thing. For me, too, I find a kind of gateway from Lovecraft&#8217;s Dexter Ward through to some of Nabokov&#8217;s work, so there is some linkage that works in terms of my own core writing heroes.</p>
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