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	<title>Comments on: Women Writing in India: A Conversation with Urvashi Butalia and Anita Roy</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2008/10/08/women-writing-in-india-a-conversation-with-urvashi-butalia-and-anita-roy/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2008/10/08/women-writing-in-india-a-conversation-with-urvashi-butalia-and-anita-roy/</link>
	<description>Jeff VanderMeer</description>
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		<title>By: Woman&#8217;s Day &#171; Smoke Screen</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2008/10/08/women-writing-in-india-a-conversation-with-urvashi-butalia-and-anita-roy/comment-page-1/#comment-20795</link>
		<dc:creator>Woman&#8217;s Day &#171; Smoke Screen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Mar 2009 13:14:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/?p=2085#comment-20795</guid>
		<description>[...] can read about this book here. (Thanks to Jabberwock for pointing to this online mention of the book in his blog many months [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] can read about this book here. (Thanks to Jabberwock for pointing to this online mention of the book in his blog many months [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Vandana Singh</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2008/10/08/women-writing-in-india-a-conversation-with-urvashi-butalia-and-anita-roy/comment-page-1/#comment-16558</link>
		<dc:creator>Vandana Singh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 15:17:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/?p=2085#comment-16558</guid>
		<description>Kaushiki, I&#039;m curious.  

&quot;A Large part...&quot;  Do you have data on how many immigrant Indian academics come here and become specialists in these fields?  To what extent do their publications toe the line you suggest?  How influential are their writings in, say, the popular American consciousness?  I don&#039;t recall seeing anything about these topics in popular magazines or popular TV shows in the U.S.  Maybe I missed something.  I ask not because I know the answer one way or another, but because I would like to know the basis for your supposition.  

My own impression is that our history of colonization and the Raj as portrayed by British Imperialism and its trickling into popular  culture in the West (for instance Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom) plus such depictions in innumerable books from non-fiction to novels (which I came across fairly frequently growing up) might have something to do with it.  This is a hypothesis, based on personal observation and plausibility, not a declaration of truth.  

But also there is a possibility that Western media tends to report what is negative about India (which, again, is a vague impression of mine) rather than anything remotely positive.  I have a sense of this because I get news from India via my family and Indian newspapers, and I see what is reported here.  Egregious examples include for instance the sensationalist reporting about the riots following Indira Gandhi&#039;s death in 1984 compared to the truth that I witnessed, living in Delhi at the time.  Also the hairdresser I refered to in my article (the one who thought I was lucky to be in the US because I wouldn&#039;t be mistreated) had come to her conclusion watching an Oprah show about dowry deaths in India.  I don&#039;t know whether Oprah talked also about how Indian women are fighting the dowry custom or if she focused solely on the situation of the victims, but the hairdresser only remembered the part about the dowry deaths.  And the hairdresser&#039;s own prejudices also played into her statements, for instance the prejudice that the US was the best place in the world to be, and that the American way to do things was the best and the only way, and that naturally other parts of the globe were less &quot;advanced&quot; than America in both attitudes and wealth.  

I think it is a little unfair to blame obscure acamedicians for the complexities of how the West views India, at least at the popular level.  But I&#039;m willing to be enlightened.  

Vandana</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kaushiki, I&#8217;m curious.  </p>
<p>&#8220;A Large part&#8230;&#8221;  Do you have data on how many immigrant Indian academics come here and become specialists in these fields?  To what extent do their publications toe the line you suggest?  How influential are their writings in, say, the popular American consciousness?  I don&#8217;t recall seeing anything about these topics in popular magazines or popular TV shows in the U.S.  Maybe I missed something.  I ask not because I know the answer one way or another, but because I would like to know the basis for your supposition.  </p>
<p>My own impression is that our history of colonization and the Raj as portrayed by British Imperialism and its trickling into popular  culture in the West (for instance Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom) plus such depictions in innumerable books from non-fiction to novels (which I came across fairly frequently growing up) might have something to do with it.  This is a hypothesis, based on personal observation and plausibility, not a declaration of truth.  </p>
<p>But also there is a possibility that Western media tends to report what is negative about India (which, again, is a vague impression of mine) rather than anything remotely positive.  I have a sense of this because I get news from India via my family and Indian newspapers, and I see what is reported here.  Egregious examples include for instance the sensationalist reporting about the riots following Indira Gandhi&#8217;s death in 1984 compared to the truth that I witnessed, living in Delhi at the time.  Also the hairdresser I refered to in my article (the one who thought I was lucky to be in the US because I wouldn&#8217;t be mistreated) had come to her conclusion watching an Oprah show about dowry deaths in India.  I don&#8217;t know whether Oprah talked also about how Indian women are fighting the dowry custom or if she focused solely on the situation of the victims, but the hairdresser only remembered the part about the dowry deaths.  And the hairdresser&#8217;s own prejudices also played into her statements, for instance the prejudice that the US was the best place in the world to be, and that the American way to do things was the best and the only way, and that naturally other parts of the globe were less &#8220;advanced&#8221; than America in both attitudes and wealth.  </p>
<p>I think it is a little unfair to blame obscure acamedicians for the complexities of how the West views India, at least at the popular level.  But I&#8217;m willing to be enlightened.  </p>
<p>Vandana</p>
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		<title>By: Kaushiki</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2008/10/08/women-writing-in-india-a-conversation-with-urvashi-butalia-and-anita-roy/comment-page-1/#comment-16504</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaushiki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 06:10:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/?p=2085#comment-16504</guid>
		<description>A large part of the reason people in the US or Europe have a negative image of women in India is because of Indian men and women who studied abroad and became academics in those countries in fields such as Women&#039;s Studies, Subaltern Studies etc.  They insisted on highlighting a negative image of India especially with regard to women and Dalits so that the West could feel all happy and superior about themselves.  Unless one acknowledges the many nuances in Indian culture and the positive ideas init instead of painting a picture with broad strokes, the image will persist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A large part of the reason people in the US or Europe have a negative image of women in India is because of Indian men and women who studied abroad and became academics in those countries in fields such as Women&#8217;s Studies, Subaltern Studies etc.  They insisted on highlighting a negative image of India especially with regard to women and Dalits so that the West could feel all happy and superior about themselves.  Unless one acknowledges the many nuances in Indian culture and the positive ideas init instead of painting a picture with broad strokes, the image will persist.</p>
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		<title>By: Vandana Singh on spec-fic and other things - Ultrabrown</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2008/10/08/women-writing-in-india-a-conversation-with-urvashi-butalia-and-anita-roy/comment-page-1/#comment-16341</link>
		<dc:creator>Vandana Singh on spec-fic and other things - Ultrabrown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 19:55:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/?p=2085#comment-16341</guid>
		<description>[...] and wrote a series of fine posts covering such topics as science fiction and the end of the world, women writing in India (a conversation with Urvashi Butalia and Anita Roy), and books that change the way we look at the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and wrote a series of fine posts covering such topics as science fiction and the end of the world, women writing in India (a conversation with Urvashi Butalia and Anita Roy), and books that change the way we look at the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Vandana Singh</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2008/10/08/women-writing-in-india-a-conversation-with-urvashi-butalia-and-anita-roy/comment-page-1/#comment-16194</link>
		<dc:creator>Vandana Singh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 02:21:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/?p=2085#comment-16194</guid>
		<description>Hello, Cheryl,

You make your point well.  Thanks.  

I can&#039;t imagine Palin as president unless they outsource the job to some other country and limit her to cheerleading.  


Vandana</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello, Cheryl,</p>
<p>You make your point well.  Thanks.  </p>
<p>I can&#8217;t imagine Palin as president unless they outsource the job to some other country and limit her to cheerleading.  </p>
<p>Vandana</p>
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		<title>By: Cheryl</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2008/10/08/women-writing-in-india-a-conversation-with-urvashi-butalia-and-anita-roy/comment-page-1/#comment-16168</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/?p=2085#comment-16168</guid>
		<description>Vandana:

I could say many of the same things about Margaret Thatcher. Or indeed about the Queen. Nevertheless, they exist. The USA has never had a female head of state, or I believe an election in which choosing one was a possibility. The McCain camp, I suspect, sees Sarah Palin more as a cheerleader or trade show babe, not as a potential successor to their guy should he drop dead.

Now of course having a bad female head of state is not a good advert for feminism. But there have been a lot of bad male heads of state too. Power corrupts, after all. Nevertheless, people in Britain, India, Germany and other countries have voted to have strong women as their head of state. Much of the talk around Hilary has been that the American people would not countenance a woman president.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vandana:</p>
<p>I could say many of the same things about Margaret Thatcher. Or indeed about the Queen. Nevertheless, they exist. The USA has never had a female head of state, or I believe an election in which choosing one was a possibility. The McCain camp, I suspect, sees Sarah Palin more as a cheerleader or trade show babe, not as a potential successor to their guy should he drop dead.</p>
<p>Now of course having a bad female head of state is not a good advert for feminism. But there have been a lot of bad male heads of state too. Power corrupts, after all. Nevertheless, people in Britain, India, Germany and other countries have voted to have strong women as their head of state. Much of the talk around Hilary has been that the American people would not countenance a woman president.</p>
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		<title>By: Anil Menon</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2008/10/08/women-writing-in-india-a-conversation-with-urvashi-butalia-and-anita-roy/comment-page-1/#comment-16146</link>
		<dc:creator>Anil Menon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 01:42:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/?p=2085#comment-16146</guid>
		<description>Vandana:

Ref: The Beast With Nine Billion Feet: Yes, I&#039;m the first male author in their fiction catalog. A fact whose birthdate I celebrated with for lots of liquid red grape, I remember. 


Anil</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vandana:</p>
<p>Ref: The Beast With Nine Billion Feet: Yes, I&#8217;m the first male author in their fiction catalog. A fact whose birthdate I celebrated with for lots of liquid red grape, I remember. </p>
<p>Anil</p>
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		<title>By: Vandana Singh</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2008/10/08/women-writing-in-india-a-conversation-with-urvashi-butalia-and-anita-roy/comment-page-1/#comment-16142</link>
		<dc:creator>Vandana Singh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 00:15:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/?p=2085#comment-16142</guid>
		<description>Hi, Cheryl, 

I wish I could say that Indira Gandhi&#039;s ascent to power was a result of feminism.  She was an extraordinary and complicated woman with some major issues especially in her later years, when her paranoia led her to declare Emergency rule (i.e. suspension of all civil rights) for a year.  I lived through that time.  Her ascent had to do with history and class more than anything.  Beyond a point she became more than a woman, she became an icon, which put her in a different category from other women.  It went to her head, unfortunately.  Sadly having a woman head of state does not necessarily say anything about the position of women in that country.  I doubt that anyone would regard Palin as a symbol of feminist resurgence were she to come to power in the U.S.  

Interesting times we live in.  

Vandana</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Cheryl, </p>
<p>I wish I could say that Indira Gandhi&#8217;s ascent to power was a result of feminism.  She was an extraordinary and complicated woman with some major issues especially in her later years, when her paranoia led her to declare Emergency rule (i.e. suspension of all civil rights) for a year.  I lived through that time.  Her ascent had to do with history and class more than anything.  Beyond a point she became more than a woman, she became an icon, which put her in a different category from other women.  It went to her head, unfortunately.  Sadly having a woman head of state does not necessarily say anything about the position of women in that country.  I doubt that anyone would regard Palin as a symbol of feminist resurgence were she to come to power in the U.S.  </p>
<p>Interesting times we live in.  </p>
<p>Vandana</p>
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		<title>By: Vandana Singh</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2008/10/08/women-writing-in-india-a-conversation-with-urvashi-butalia-and-anita-roy/comment-page-1/#comment-16141</link>
		<dc:creator>Vandana Singh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 00:14:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/?p=2085#comment-16141</guid>
		<description>Jeff, thanks!  I actually won&#039;t be able to post anything tonight but I have two more posts to go, and hopefully you&#039;ll find them interesting as well. 

Anil, thanks for pointing to the Ramanujan, Rao and Shulman book, which fortunately graces my bookshelves.  Courtesan literature in India is indeed very interesting.  &quot;Women Writing in India&quot; talks about a courtesan called Palani or Muddupalani, who was attached to the court of the Thanjavur kings.  She was famous in her time for an erotic epic called Radhika Santwanam, which later became controversial.  I wonder if the courtesans of the North wrote similar bold works.  The only one I know about is Umrao Jaan Ada&#039;s poetry.  

Muddupalani speaks of herself with a refreshing lack of modesty:  

A face that glows like the full moon
Skills of conversation, matching the countenance
Eyes filled with compassion, matching the speech
A great spirit of generosity, matching the glance
There are the ornaments that adorn Palani
When she is praised by kings.  

Thanks also for pointing out the Chabria and Dhar books.  I like the fact that Zubaan publishes SFF without labeling the books as such.  I hope the genre ghetto doesn&#039;t take hold in India.  

I just finished reading the Chabria book, Generation 14.  A strange and poetic tale.  I&#039;m not yet sure if I can comment on it --- I have to let my thoughts brew for a bit.  I haven&#039;t read Payal Dhar&#039;s two YA books yet, but my daughter really enjoyed them. 

Anil&#039;s own YA novel is coming out from Zubaan this month.  It is called The Beast with Nine Billion Feet and I can&#039;t wait to read it.  I believe Anil is the first male author to be published by Zubaan --- a rare honour.  Am I right?  

Vandana</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff, thanks!  I actually won&#8217;t be able to post anything tonight but I have two more posts to go, and hopefully you&#8217;ll find them interesting as well. </p>
<p>Anil, thanks for pointing to the Ramanujan, Rao and Shulman book, which fortunately graces my bookshelves.  Courtesan literature in India is indeed very interesting.  &#8220;Women Writing in India&#8221; talks about a courtesan called Palani or Muddupalani, who was attached to the court of the Thanjavur kings.  She was famous in her time for an erotic epic called Radhika Santwanam, which later became controversial.  I wonder if the courtesans of the North wrote similar bold works.  The only one I know about is Umrao Jaan Ada&#8217;s poetry.  </p>
<p>Muddupalani speaks of herself with a refreshing lack of modesty:  </p>
<p>A face that glows like the full moon<br />
Skills of conversation, matching the countenance<br />
Eyes filled with compassion, matching the speech<br />
A great spirit of generosity, matching the glance<br />
There are the ornaments that adorn Palani<br />
When she is praised by kings.  </p>
<p>Thanks also for pointing out the Chabria and Dhar books.  I like the fact that Zubaan publishes SFF without labeling the books as such.  I hope the genre ghetto doesn&#8217;t take hold in India.  </p>
<p>I just finished reading the Chabria book, Generation 14.  A strange and poetic tale.  I&#8217;m not yet sure if I can comment on it &#8212; I have to let my thoughts brew for a bit.  I haven&#8217;t read Payal Dhar&#8217;s two YA books yet, but my daughter really enjoyed them. </p>
<p>Anil&#8217;s own YA novel is coming out from Zubaan this month.  It is called The Beast with Nine Billion Feet and I can&#8217;t wait to read it.  I believe Anil is the first male author to be published by Zubaan &#8212; a rare honour.  Am I right?  </p>
<p>Vandana</p>
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		<title>By: Cheryl</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2008/10/08/women-writing-in-india-a-conversation-with-urvashi-butalia-and-anita-roy/comment-page-1/#comment-16138</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 23:27:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/?p=2085#comment-16138</guid>
		<description>The next time someone expresses surprise about there being feminism in India you might point out that India has had a female head of state, whereas the USA...

Great interview, but I don&#039;t think there is anything non-political about &quot;publishing books which open up alternatives&quot;. Daring to suggest that society could be organized differently is about as political as you can get.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The next time someone expresses surprise about there being feminism in India you might point out that India has had a female head of state, whereas the USA&#8230;</p>
<p>Great interview, but I don&#8217;t think there is anything non-political about &#8220;publishing books which open up alternatives&#8221;. Daring to suggest that society could be organized differently is about as political as you can get.</p>
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