And I bet the group has at least one feminist.

Man, I would like to be a fly on the wall there.

http://oursin.livejournal.com/839272.html

Briefly, something can be quite genuinely liberating in context, but sketchy and threatening when taken out of context & promoted as a norm.

And now I feel like I’ve wasted another few minutes of my life even having to write out a defense of a negative reaction to that shit.

Also, I like this response: http://rhienelleth.livejournal.com/408763.html

Again, for consenting adults in a self-segregated community, I have no issues. I somewhat (with reservations) agree that we shouldn’t make women’s breasts the objectified sexual images they are in our culture (I don’t think this is the way to change that, though). In the greater culture, or a convention that isn’t specifically centered around this issue, or based from this movement, the reasons why touching a women’s breasts, that the proponents are saying it’s so liberating to get away from, pretty much quash having this being in the open.

First disclaimer, IANAL, I don’t play one on TV. Laws might have changed (I doubt it).

Having worked in Management Consulting in the early 90s, I was around in business when the whole sexual harassment “awakening” happened. To say we attended many mandatory seminars regarding this would be an understatement (everybody was required). So lets make a little test comparison here.

Is there any business conducted at Conventions? Well, of course the answer is yes. There are sales, there is networking, there are connections and introductions made. That right there puts this issue in a unique light.

Okay, so lets make a business environment connections. And here, in all these examples, I am discussing no-coerced, fully consensual relationships (this is also for medium to larger business, family businesses have their own issues, anything coerced, no matter how minor, is right out). There is normally a small amount of flirting in any situation with extended contact between sexes in most business environments. Friendships are formed, people joke about sex. Demeaning jokes, joke that deride one sex, promote “abusive” relationships, etc are still not acceptable. If there is some dating in between the workers, that’s acceptable. At a certain point if enough people are dating, it becomes a problem (as in the environment promotes dating between employees, just to be clear, cheating/adultery, swapping, sharing, etc are right out, and an acceptable level would need to be defined by a court, for argument’s sake lets say much less than 10%)). However, they can’t be in the same power structure, and they need to be of the same strata in the management flow charts. If the two report up the same chain, one needs to be transfered. If one has control/management supervision/is in a position to affect promotion or discipline, etc, that relationship must end by one of them leaving or ending the relationship. If one is a direct supervisor of the other, that (in most businesses) is grounds for immediate dismissal (often of both).

Understand that if there is enough joking, dating, flirting, etc between the employees, that an employee who isn’t even concerned, part of that reporting structure, never even talked to by the people in that reporting structure, that employee can file suit as a “Hostile Work Environment.” They don’t have to be immediately involved, passed over, rejected, made fun of or anything like that and they can still bring suit.

I’ve attended the past two Confusions and I can confirm that there is an open attitude about sex… at certain times, in certain places and circumstances. As I remember (and I’ve recycled the programs, sorry) there are also published guidelines for certain groups attending the Con regarding things from weapons to contacts outside of their group.

What follows is my personal opinion and should not be taken as a reflection on my opinion of the group’s goals.

If I was on a Con’s Staff (of which I’m not), and this came up, my first question would be, “Is this only to be part of private room party?” If the answer was “no,” I would bring it up for a vote and urge members to vote it down (if “yes” I would have more questions). If I was unsuccessful, I would immediately resign and untangle myself financially from the con. Because, IMHO, a suit will be coming. It may be that year, it may be four years down, but it’ll happen. It’ll be messy. It’ll be costly.

Again, nobody will have done anything they consider “wrong.” Nobody will have crossed over in the open-mouth-breathing groping of each other. Nobody will have violated the the “opt-in” or “asking first” protocol.

And yet the suit will come. They will win. Heck, “Your honor, here’s their protocol and buttons.”

I can understand that most businesses have never been through this training so there is now a generation that hasn’t learned these things, yet.

If someone can explain to me what a South American ancient civilization forehead is, I’m good here.

JV