Comments on: Weird Tales: Nir Yaniv on Writing Speculative Fiction in Israel http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2007/12/09/weird-tales-nir-yaniv-on-writing-speculative-fiction-in-israel/ Jeff VanderMeer Thu, 18 Mar 2010 06:18:37 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Hunter Eden http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2007/12/09/weird-tales-nir-yaniv-on-writing-speculative-fiction-in-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-5225 Hunter Eden Mon, 17 Dec 2007 16:09:10 +0000 http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2007/12/09/weird-tales-nir-yaniv-on-writing-speculative-fiction-in-israel/#comment-5225 Thanks for a fascinating portrait of the world of Israeli SF, Nir. I guess what surprises me most about the relative lack of popularity of speculative fiction in Israel is the rich history of Jewish fantasy writing and stories, from golems and dybbuks to Isaac Bashevis Singer and Robert Bloch. Being of partial Jewish descent myself, I find that what ties me back to my roots isn't so much synagogue or borsht but the unique Judaic sense of the fantastic and even macabre. Could it be an accident that Tim Burton's "The Corpse Bride" was based on an old Jewish folktale? Thanks for a fascinating portrait of the world of Israeli SF, Nir. I guess what surprises me most about the relative lack of popularity of speculative fiction in Israel is the rich history of Jewish fantasy writing and stories, from golems and dybbuks to Isaac Bashevis Singer and Robert Bloch. Being of partial Jewish descent myself, I find that what ties me back to my roots isn’t so much synagogue or borsht but the unique Judaic sense of the fantastic and even macabre. Could it be an accident that Tim Burton’s “The Corpse Bride” was based on an old Jewish folktale?

]]> By: Boojie http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2007/12/09/weird-tales-nir-yaniv-on-writing-speculative-fiction-in-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-5084 Boojie Mon, 10 Dec 2007 17:26:56 +0000 http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2007/12/09/weird-tales-nir-yaniv-on-writing-speculative-fiction-in-israel/#comment-5084 Writers appear when there are platforms. I was rather awed at this, actually. When we founded Dreams in Aspamia I was quite skeptic about us getting enough material. I was really surprised at the - growing - number of submissions we got. The internet is excellent for this. It helps create the critical mass necessary so writers (and any other types of fans) don't feel as though they're working in vacuum. Our writers' community was born and raised on the net. The negative sort of thinking you describe I know quite well and hate wholeheartedly. We have quite a few of those here, but since we have enough positive, insistent doers to make things happen, we usually just ignore them. We do what we want and have fun while we do it, and usually we get results that far exceed our expectations. What you need is a small but stubborn group of doers who don't really care about the obstacles they face, and just want to have fun in the process. Writers appear when there are platforms. I was rather awed at this, actually. When we founded Dreams in Aspamia I was quite skeptic about us getting enough material. I was really surprised at the – growing – number of submissions we got.
The internet is excellent for this. It helps create the critical mass necessary so writers (and any other types of fans) don’t feel as though they’re working in vacuum. Our writers’ community was born and raised on the net.

The negative sort of thinking you describe I know quite well and hate wholeheartedly. We have quite a few of those here, but since we have enough positive, insistent doers to make things happen, we usually just ignore them. We do what we want and have fun while we do it, and usually we get results that far exceed our expectations. What you need is a small but stubborn group of doers who don’t really care about the obstacles they face, and just want to have fun in the process.

]]> By: David de Beer http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2007/12/09/weird-tales-nir-yaniv-on-writing-speculative-fiction-in-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-5082 David de Beer Mon, 10 Dec 2007 11:45:09 +0000 http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2007/12/09/weird-tales-nir-yaniv-on-writing-speculative-fiction-in-israel/#comment-5082 yeah, true. Don't think I'll ever go into the publishing end of the business, but if I did, I'd go online. Part of the reason for that would be to expand and become part of the international community, not remain insular which is a problem we have. We don't have enough local writers, really, and the ones who are out there are very isolated from each other. There's the odd fumbling attempt to bring more of them together, but depressingly few of us have any notice or contact with the outside world at all. I know Something Wicked, our horror mag, is now finally making an attempt to go international, listing on Duotrope and Ralan, etc. A big part of their headeache of course is submissions, for the first issue I think they only got about 27. Most of them from a writing group. I briefly had contact with that group [and without the internet, even that would have been impossible] and while a few of them are very open and eager to learn more and expand, depressingly many of them are suspicious and hostile to outsiders. We're also not a wealthy country, so it's an open question just how many possible writers have internet access. A few of us have stumbled across each other, and the odd few have made some publishing strides in the international community. And having one magazine at all is better than nothing. See, the problem is exactly the fellow writers bit, those few of us who have been working the last while almost none knew the other existed till recently. So, this is all very new and hopefully the numbers wille xpand and grow. I don't know what it was like for you guys, but the biggest stumbling blocks in my countrymen, and one of the reasons I almost totally gave up trying to bring any kind of community or writing groups together, the problems are apathy and insular mindedness. to wit: "Well, they won't publish us because we're South African so why even bother? yeah, I'd like to work on a comic/ magazine/ whatever, but you know, it's so much work!" And then of course there's the massive headache of convincing people not to just write and publish locally, but to think wider. I've heard this is a problem in Australia too, as many writers and markets as they have who do think and act towards the outside, it seems most just draw inwards and refuse to participate with the outside world. But again, they do have a culture of sorts. It's happening here, but very slowly and it'll take a loooong time still. baby steps I guess:) that aside, well done to you guys for making it happen in your country and best of luck for the future. yeah, true. Don’t think I’ll ever go into the publishing end of the business, but if I did, I’d go online. Part of the reason for that would be to expand and become part of the international community, not remain insular which is a problem we have.
We don’t have enough local writers, really, and the ones who are out there are very isolated from each other. There’s the odd fumbling attempt to bring more of them together, but depressingly few of us have any notice or contact with the outside world at all.
I know Something Wicked, our horror mag, is now finally making an attempt to go international, listing on Duotrope and Ralan, etc.
A big part of their headeache of course is submissions, for the first issue I think they only got about 27.
Most of them from a writing group. I briefly had contact with that group [and without the internet, even that would have been impossible] and while a few of them are very open and eager to learn more and expand, depressingly many of them are suspicious and hostile to outsiders.
We’re also not a wealthy country, so it’s an open question just how many possible writers have internet access.
A few of us have stumbled across each other, and the odd few have made some publishing strides in the international community. And having one magazine at all is better than nothing.
See, the problem is exactly the fellow writers bit, those few of us who have been working the last while almost none knew the other existed till recently.
So, this is all very new and hopefully the numbers wille xpand and grow.

I don’t know what it was like for you guys, but the biggest stumbling blocks in my countrymen, and one of the reasons I almost totally gave up trying to bring any kind of community or writing groups together, the problems are apathy and insular mindedness. to wit: “Well, they won’t publish us because we’re South African so why even bother? yeah, I’d like to work on a comic/ magazine/ whatever, but you know, it’s so much work!”
And then of course there’s the massive headache of convincing people not to just write and publish locally, but to think wider.
I’ve heard this is a problem in Australia too, as many writers and markets as they have who do think and act towards the outside, it seems most just draw inwards and refuse to participate with the outside world.
But again, they do have a culture of sorts.

It’s happening here, but very slowly and it’ll take a loooong time still.
baby steps I guess:)

that aside, well done to you guys for making it happen in your country and best of luck for the future.

]]> By: Nir http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2007/12/09/weird-tales-nir-yaniv-on-writing-speculative-fiction-in-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-5081 Nir Mon, 10 Dec 2007 10:49:57 +0000 http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2007/12/09/weird-tales-nir-yaniv-on-writing-speculative-fiction-in-israel/#comment-5081 Hi David, I think you can use the internet to improve the situation, and today it's much easier than it was for us in 95, at least technically. For instance, it is now quite easy to open an online magazine: all you have to do is open a blog on some free platform (or pay a bit for a server and have your own WordPress), and start asking your fellow writers for stories. Thus you're left with the job of selecting and editing the stories, and I'm sure there's no SF community in the world in which people with the right skills for that can't be found... Hi David,
I think you can use the internet to improve the situation, and today it’s much easier than it was for us in 95, at least technically. For instance, it is now quite easy to open an online magazine: all you have to do is open a blog on some free platform (or pay a bit for a server and have your own WordPress), and start asking your fellow writers for stories. Thus you’re left with the job of selecting and editing the stories, and I’m sure there’s no SF community in the world in which people with the right skills for that can’t be found…

]]> By: David de Beer http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2007/12/09/weird-tales-nir-yaniv-on-writing-speculative-fiction-in-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-5080 David de Beer Mon, 10 Dec 2007 08:18:47 +0000 http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2007/12/09/weird-tales-nir-yaniv-on-writing-speculative-fiction-in-israel/#comment-5080 <i>The existence of SF magazines is, to an American, a given.</i> lol! certainly true. A lot of this rings much too familiar, but my country is still far behind, about where Israel was in '95 then, as far as the formation of SF writerly culture goes. Rumor has it we used to get some of the zines, but there were definitely none around when I was a kid ['80's]. Still don't have any, although a couple people are making a go of publishing a horror zine. The existence of SF magazines is, to an American, a given.

lol! certainly true. A lot of this rings much too familiar, but my country is still far behind, about where Israel was in ‘95 then, as far as the formation of SF writerly culture goes.
Rumor has it we used to get some of the zines, but there were definitely none around when I was a kid ['80's].
Still don’t have any, although a couple people are making a go of publishing a horror zine.

]]> By: Jeff VanderMeer http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2007/12/09/weird-tales-nir-yaniv-on-writing-speculative-fiction-in-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-5076 Jeff VanderMeer Mon, 10 Dec 2007 00:46:18 +0000 http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2007/12/09/weird-tales-nir-yaniv-on-writing-speculative-fiction-in-israel/#comment-5076 This is all fascinating to me. Thanks for contributing something so interesting to my blog. And to Boojie for adding more. Jeff This is all fascinating to me. Thanks for contributing something so interesting to my blog. And to Boojie for adding more.

Jeff

]]> By: Boojie http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2007/12/09/weird-tales-nir-yaniv-on-writing-speculative-fiction-in-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-5074 Boojie Sun, 09 Dec 2007 23:02:42 +0000 http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2007/12/09/weird-tales-nir-yaniv-on-writing-speculative-fiction-in-israel/#comment-5074 One might also mention the fact that serious SF writing in Israel started in SF forums (mostly on the IOL SF forum). Since there was nowhere to publish, no workshops, no available peer group, much of the experience of many of our generation of writers was acquired as part of our regular forum participation - we'd publish our stories there, get peer reviews, promise to get better next time (or rip out the reviewer's innards, depending on temperament. I always tended towards the innards ripping option myself). We had forum contests and forum writing projects and a forum magazine which collected them (and later became, through several transformations, the online magazine Don't Panic). Later we've founded specialized forums dedicated to SF writing, and more professional contests were founded by the ISFSFF. That was our audience and our peer group at first. This has had much effect on the character of Israeli SF, namely the fact that most of the "real" SF (the SF that has grown from within the community and is written as SF proper) tends to be on the shorter side of the short story category (the net does that to you) and its writers tend to have an awful craving for comments for each and every story. Vered Tochterman One might also mention the fact that serious SF writing in Israel started in SF forums (mostly on the IOL SF forum). Since there was nowhere to publish, no workshops, no available peer group, much of the experience of many of our generation of writers was acquired as part of our regular forum participation – we’d publish our stories there, get peer reviews, promise to get better next time (or rip out the reviewer’s innards, depending on temperament. I always tended towards the innards ripping option myself). We had forum contests and forum writing projects and a forum magazine which collected them (and later became, through several transformations, the online magazine Don’t Panic). Later we’ve founded specialized forums dedicated to SF writing, and more professional contests were founded by the ISFSFF.
That was our audience and our peer group at first. This has had much effect on the character of Israeli SF, namely the fact that most of the “real” SF (the SF that has grown from within the community and is written as SF proper) tends to be on the shorter side of the short story category (the net does that to you) and its writers tend to have an awful craving for comments for each and every story.
Vered Tochterman

]]> By: דמות בדיונית ומעלליה » ארכיון » אורח פורח http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2007/12/09/weird-tales-nir-yaniv-on-writing-speculative-fiction-in-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-5062 דמות בדיונית ומעלליה » ארכיון » אורח פורח Sun, 09 Dec 2007 15:46:02 +0000 http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2007/12/09/weird-tales-nir-yaniv-on-writing-speculative-fiction-in-israel/#comment-5062 [...] בבלוגו של סופר המד“ב האמריקאי ×’‘×£ ואנדרמיר: כאן. ועכשיו כבר מותר לספר: סיפור שלי יופיע בגליון אוקטובר [...] [...] בבלוגו של סופר המד“ב האמריקאי ×’‘×£ ואנדרמיר: כאן. ועכשיו כבר מותר לספר: סיפור שלי יופיע בגליון אוקטובר [...]

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